Revisiting: Performing Under Pressure: Tips from Mark Allen & Michellie Jones

Andrew: Welcome to the TriDot Podcast. We are fresh off a hot weekend in the Triathlon world. This episode of the TriDot Podcast is airing the Monday after Kona Weekend, the IRONMAN World Championships 2026. I watched, I watched glued to my TV on and off all day long. fantastic racing. Wow, what a great addition of the Iron Man World Championships. Both the men's and women's races were dramatic all the way to the finish line, all the way to the final miles. the on the women's side, I think the athletes in contention late in the race was exactly who I expected it to be, with Taylor Knibb winning in dramatic fashion. On the men's side, it was equally dramatic, but it was not at all the athletes I expected to see in contention late into the race, with Vincent Luis winning his first ever IRONMAN World Championship and his first I ever Kona. So wow, what a great day of racing. It was great to watch it. we our staff here at TriDot was just buzzing all weekend in this morning on our on our Microsoft Teams chat with just coaches reporting in of their athletes that that won age groups, placed in age groups, had big PRs, had had great finishes. so a lot of tried out athletes on the island doing their thing. We see you, we recognize you. We're gonna try to get a few of them on the show here soon to hear their own personal Kona stories. I was watching actually the athletes were on the bike course and I had it on TV and my three-year-old walks to the room and she goes, daddy, you have a bike like that. And I was You're right, I do have a bike like that. And she goes, Is that you? And I was like, No, that's not me. Like this race is actually happening right now in a place called Hawaii, and Daddy's here with you in the living room on the couch. and she was like, Well, why aren't you racing? And so I was trying to explain how good you have to be, and how fast you have to be to be in this race and be on the TV. And she was not understanding. She did not get, well, you have a bike and you're a triathlete. Why aren't you racing today in Hawaii like these other people? so that was comical. that was cute. It was fun. one day, one day maybe we'll see. but anyway, for our show today, I wanted to revisit a conversation I had in Hawaii. we we've done some podcasting about Kona, but there was one episode in particular. That we recorded from Kona. I sat down with Mark Allen and Michellie Jones, who are coaches with TriDot. They coached through TriDot. and they sat down with me and Kona and they they've both won this race before, right, Mark, a number of times. Michellie once. and we just had a really good conversation, not about Kona in particular, but just about how to handle a pressure race. You know, there's sometimes you go out and do a race and you just kinda it's kind of for fun or it's with some friends or it's with your training group and it's just kind of a fun day at the races. And other times you go do a race, whether it's a sprint all the way up to full, and there's pressure because you want to PR or you wanna achieve a certain time or you wanna beat a certain somebody or you want to place in your age group, you wanna qualify. If you have a big goal attached to a race, whether it's just a local sprint or an IRONMAN you can roll into a transition that morning, you know, and start setting up and you feel the pressure. And Mark and Michellie, as former retired professional triathletes, they've both won some really big races. They know a thing or two about handling a pressure-filled race. And so we're we're not gonna do the warm-up, we're not gonna do the cooldown. I'm just gonna drop you guys right into the heart of the conversation where me, Mark, and Michellie were talking about how they coach their athletes through having a race that has pressure on it. Maybe somebody listening today will find themselves in Kona next year and you'll be able to take what they said to heart. So if you listen closely in the background, you can actually hear the waves of Kona. We recorded this right along the bay right there. And so enjoyed this one. Great conversation between me, Mark, and Michellie about pressure packed racing.

Andrew: Unless you truly have ice flowing through your veins, the bigger the race, the bigger the pressure. A big race can be Kona, or that A race that just simply matters deeply to you. A big race can be shooting for a PR, or just be that upcoming local sprint down the road where you want to finish better than you did last year. If you care about it, and the pressure ratchets up, it is a big race for you. I love that we are hitting this topic with the two of you on the show, because from the World Championships for both of you, racing in Nice for Mark, the Olympics for you Michellie, there were just so many big races where all eyes were on the two of you. And I’ll just say that both of you had a fair amount of success in those races, so you know how to handle the pressure. You know how to be clutch when the intensity ratchets up. So what race from your career would you say you felt the greatest amount of pressure to perform? Mark, we’ll start with you.

Mark: I would probably say the race where I had the most pressure, where I felt like I actually managed it best, was my final Ironman in 1995. A lot of people would say it must have been a lot of pressure in 1989. And it was because this was going to be my seventh time back. I did not know if I had what it took to win, I was just coming back that year to just hopefully finally have my best race, because I had let the pressure get to me in the first six years that I raced here. When I say I let the pressure get to me, I mean that I was coming in with a goal to win, but when I felt the possibility of that win start to slip away in the middle of the race, because I was going through a bad patch or my nutrition wasn’t working or whatever, all of a sudden that pressure just suffocated me. I went from racing, to surviving, to having to come up with a secondary reason to keep going. But in 1989 I really came here just with that feeling like, “You know what? Dave Scott might win again, somebody else might win again,” but my commitment to this island and to myself and to my training partners and those who had supported me was to just come here and have a really strong swim, bike, and run. If I can do that, that will be fulfilling. So I didn’t have that same level of pressure. Fast forward to 1995, I had won five years straight. I took 1994 off from Ironman racing because we had the birth of our son earlier that year, and I was burned out. That’s another thing that athletes have to honor, is that sometimes that need for real deep recovery builds up over time. You might be doing something one year that you did last year, and all of a sudden you’re exhausted and you’re like, “I’m not doing anything different, why am I feeling like this?” It's really that your body is slowly getting depleted on certain levels, maybe your motivation is getting depleted on certain levels, and you just need to back away. It’s not saying, “I’m giving up on the sport, I’m giving up on my big dreams,” it’s just saying, “Let me regroup.” That’s what I did in 1994. So coming back in 1995, I had won five straight. Gregg Welch won the year that I was not competing.

Andrew: Good for Gregg!

Mark: Yeah. He was first, Dave Scott was second at age 40, impressive beyond belief.

Andrew: Absolutely!

Mark: But at that point in history there was this huge pressure like, “Okay, the dude’s coming back, he’s 37. Nobody’s won this race as a 37‑year-old.” Now we’ve seen a lot of athletes extend their careers beyond that early mid‑30’s sweet spot. And nobody had won six in six starts. Dave won six, but he had had one where he didn’t win in there. So there was this huge expectation. And there was only one place where people would cheer for me, and that was coming across the line first. If I came across the line second or lower, people would have gone, “Ah dude, he came back one too many times! He should have just friggin’ retired!” At the same time, I was just in my own zone. I think that’s important for people to have: what’s your purpose for being on that start line, beyond the finish placing or the finish time? What experience are you hoping to gain from this journey that has nothing to do with any comparison to anybody else, or even to a maybe younger version of yourself? Because a lot of athletes, as we know that we coach at TriDot, have been racing for a lot of years. They’re not necessarily racing against their fellow competitors, they want to match a time that they did 15 years before. It’s hard to win against your younger self, right? So I was just in that space of, “I want to come here one more time and give the best that I have to give.” I knew that I had pulled the last little bit of magic out of my bag of tricks that I wanted to try to get faster, so I said, “This is the most fit that I can ever be, the most prepared on every level, physically, mentally, spiritually that I can be.”

Andrew: Did you know it was going to be your last race?

Mark: I knew that it was going to be my last Ironman.

Andrew: Which adds to the pressure, I imagine.

Mark: It adds to the pressure, but at the same time it freed me up. I knew there were no more tomorrows. This was it, this was going to be the final hurrah. Which meant that if things started to go south, it’d be like, “Oh no!”

Andrew: Your last hoorah wasn’t a hoorah, it was a boo-hoorah.

Mark: Because I knew it was my last one, I was able to go so deep within myself and pull out so much more, because I knew I didn’t need to keep anything in reserve for any more racing. This was it. So one thought to keep in mind, when you’re going into that big race, is why does this have meaning to you? What are you trying to gain from it? Be willing to just embrace the journey of that day. Especially if it’s a full Ironman, it’s going to be a journey. It’s not going to be a one-two you’re done kind of thing like a sprint or maybe an Olympic, even a 70.3 Ultimately, for me the most successful races are the ones where every time that little committee goes off in my head that’s whining and saying, “Whaah, my legs are killing me, it’s too hot! That competitor’s too far ahead! I shouldn’t have come back, I’m 37, Thomas Hellriegal’s 13 years younger than me!”

Andrew: “Why did I do this?”

Mark: Yeah, “Hellriegal’s 13½ minutes ahead of me starting this marathon, this is so bad!” Success is when you can take that noise and just tell yourself, “Shut up. Take a breath, pull back for a second. Regroup, and then wrap your mind around something that you can control. Get to the next aid station. Loosen up your stride, lower your shoulders if you’re on the run. Relax your cadence if you’re going into the wind and getting blown all around.” Whatever it is, give the best you have to give each and every moment. Ask yourself, “Am I being the best version of myself right here?” If you’re whining, I guarantee you the answer is going to be a no. But if you can go, “Whew, okay, I got rid of those voices, it’s background static now. Let me just do what I’ve trained myself to do. Let my body take over here,” then you start to absorb it. Then the next thing you know you’re in this rhythm, you feel this flow, and the miles are going faster and faster, even though you may even be going slower. It becomes this experience like all of a sudden you’re locked into the best you have to give. That is so empowering when you can find, even for a few moments in the race, that place where you go, “I am locked in and I am giving the best I have.” That is a successful day.

Andrew: Michellie, Mark was known for Nice, known for Kona, had some other big races in there as well. You did everything from Olympic distance, ITU racing, draft-legal, Ironman World Champion. From that whole gambit, what race did you feel you had the most pressure on you to perform well?

Michellie: You know, I think my journey was slightly different of course than Mark’s. At the beginning of my career, I felt no pressure. There was no expectation. When I won my first world championship, did I think I was going to win my world championship that day? Not really, but I knew I was in great form. Then definitely anytime you have to go back to defend, it’s always added pressure because you know what it feels like to win. You’ve been there, everyone’s expecting the same. Even though triathlon is the most dynamic sport in the world. Like pool swimming, for example. You swim down that black line, the water temperature is always the same, the distance in the pool is usually in meters or yards, if you’re doing short-course. But it’s just so different the more time you spend in the sport, and if you’re winning a lot. I definitely won a lot, so then I’d have athletes say to me, “Oh, it’s so easy for you, Michellie, because you’re just going to win again.”

Andrew: Well, you still gotta go out and do the thing!

Michellie: That’s the whole point, right? You still have to have the best swim, bike, and run. I could tell you several points in my career where the pressure got to me, and I can tell you several points in my career when I’d win a race and the pressure didn’t get to me. Like the pressure of racing the Olympics. As I said, it was at home, with your friends and family. In 1999, Australia had finished at the World Championships in first, second, third, fourth, and fifth. So we were expected to win a gold medal. Then we had a performance review after the Olympics, one of the well-known swim coaches in Australia, Laurie Lawrence, looked at me and said, “Even you, Michellie, are disappointed with your silver medal.” And I was like just flabbergasted. I couldn’t believe that they would say that. Because Olympics happen every four years. It’s one day, a moment of time that you have to prepare for. Sometimes athletes prepare for it all their life, because they know that they’re sport is an Olympic sport.

Andrew: There’s so many athletes on that highest of levels that can take it on any given day.

Michellie: Yeah, and you see a lot of people that do crumble under the pressure. I’ve medaled at a lot of world championships, and that gave me confidence, to know that under pressure I could be very consistent. Even my high school run coach would always tease me, “Michellie, when are you going to blow up in a workout?” I’m like, “Why?” Because for me, that was a mental game in training as well as racing, the fact that I’m consistent in training. I know I’ve done the work, that’s the secret to doing well. Then if I came back and kept winning on a course, that gave me confidence that I could win. So I think some of the lessons I learned was, don’t change anything. It doesn’t matter if it’s a local race or an Olympic race, a way to take the pressure completely off, is keep doing everything you usually do. If your warmup is like that at your local race, keep that at your Ironman World Championships. That the food that you take is what you always take. That’s why we practice it in training, right? Whatever we do in training, we transfer that. I think that takes a lot of the pressure off.

Andrew: Because even though it’s a big race, even though the race might be more important to you –

Michellie: I mean, here’s why you do a warmup, right?

Andrew: Yeah. The steps are familiar.

Michellie: Yeah, exactly, and I think that’s something that I really managed really well over my entire career. Making sure that every time I stepped up to the start line, even at the Olympics – all these other athletes were not wanting to do media interviews, and I’m like, “I’ve been doing them my entire career, I’m not going to change anything.” I think that really helped me get through that Olympic experience. Then think about the Ironman. Here I was, one of the best athletes in the world at short-course, and I was throwing it all away, right? High risk, to go and do Ironman. That was a lot of pressure. But one thing that Paula Newby-Fraser told me that I think helped me so much, is just treat it like a training day. It’s just another swim, it’s just another bike, it’s just another run. They were words of wisdom that I still live by, and still coach by, to treat it just like another training day. So definitely the Olympics, then going to Ironman, super high pressure. The other thing that I’ve really learned over the years, dealing with that pressure, is a few times I definitely succumbed to the pressure because I let people get in my head.

Andrew: And you just didn’t perform as strongly because of it, I imagine?

Michellie: Yeah. One thing I did learn was never give your competition motivation to want to destroy you out on the race course.

Andrew: Mark, you’re laughing at that?

Michellie: But it’s true! Always talk about yourself, never talk about your competition. That helps you. Some people love to smack talk.

Andrew: We’ve seen some of that in the pro field lately.

Michellie: Yeah. But triathlon is the most humbling sport in the world, and if I smack-talked, it would definitely turn around and kick me in the butt. I learned very early, don’t smack-talk. Definitely that helped. I talk to my athletes, like when they’re racing in Kona, this is a world championship. They feel the pressure, they see the pressure. They think everyone else looks fitter than them. But I always tell them, everyone’s looking at you the same way. We’re all fit, we all look fast. I always thought, “That athlete looks way faster than me.” But as Mark said, that commentary that you have in your head – I call it your chimp brain – you can’t turn it off, but it doesn’t mean you have to listen to it. I tell my athletes a lot, “Those things that go on in your head, we’re all thinking the same.” And they’re like, “Really?” I’m like, “Yeah, why did I get up in the morning? Why did I do this race? Why did I want to step up to an Ironman?”

Andrew: “Why am I a triathlete in the first place? I could have so many other hobbies!”

Michellie: Yeah, there’s always that little voice in your head. That’s really where that pressure comes from. Having a good team behind you is really beneficial, because they can help tune it out a little bit as well. A lot of the viewers may not know who Kathy Freeman is, but she was an aboriginal runner who ended up winning the Olympics at the 400 meters. You talk about high pressure, the whole nation expected her to win. Every single Australian on that day expected her to win. And she sort of had the same philosophy, her management had the same philosophy that I developed, of having a good team. From your massage therapist who would give you confidence, “Ah, the muscles feel really good today.” To your coaches, “You’ve done this. Everything that you’ve done in training, we’ve prepared you for that moment.” Your family support, your friend support, all that whole team, if you can surround yourself with a lot of positivity, that is key as well. Having a good team behind you is super, super important.

Mark: That reminded me of something that I just remembered. Prior to getting to the start line in 1989, I certainly felt that huge, immense pressure here in Kona. Part of the pressure was thinking, “Gee, if I don’t perform, it’s going to be death and doom and my life is going to be over.” Like my friends are going to leave me, and my family is going to be gone, and I’m going to be thrown out on the street.

Andrew: “I’m always going to be the guy who was this close.”

Mark: Yeah, you just create all these scenarios in your mind. Literally the day before the race I was walking along, ready to check my bike in, and I saw Corky on the street, a neighbor from San Diego. I didn’t know he was there, and he goes, “Hey Mark! Have a great race out there, and just know that no matter what happens, we love you.” It just really reminded me, “No matter what happens tomorrow, my life is going to go on. Things are going to be okay.”

Andrew: Corky will still be there.

Mark: Corky will still be there, and he will love me, and his wife will love me, and my family and friends will love me. Just embrace that point beyond the end of the race and realize “Yeah, my life will be okay. I will be okay no matter how the race turns out.” Then backtrack to the days before the race. So much of the pressure is in those days leading up to the event. Because you’re creating these scenarios in your mind of what might happen, and you have all these scenarios of things that you’re trying to figure out. “How will I manage if they take place in the race?” All the things that could go wrong, right? You can get overwhelmed with trying to figure out every scenario that might happen to you out there on the course, especially at an Ironman. But I guarantee you, if any of those shows up in the race, it will be so much easier to manage it and deal with it in the race than it was to think about how you might manage it and deal with it before the race.

Andrew: Ah, that’s so true. Absolutely.

Mark: So the athletes that I coach, I just remind them, “Race day will take care of itself.” In these days leading up to the race, first of all, remember it’s okay to have anxiety, to have anticipation, because that is what is going to help you raise your performance.

Andrew: So for your athletes, your goal as a coach, you’re not trying to eliminate the nerves or the pressure –

Michellie: No, not at all! That’s healthy!

Andrew: – you’re just trying to help them navigate that correctly.

Mark: Yeah, and you’re trying to get it in that sweet spot where you know it’s going to help them have the race of their life. I mean you do want to treat it in the race kind of like it is just another training day in the sense of, “I know I’ve got this.” But at the same time, that anticipation is what elevates you to that performance that you would never have in a training day. So I suggest in those days leading up to it, just do the things that you actually have control over in those days.

Michellie: That’s what I was just about to say, control what you can control. That’s one of my favorite sayings. Control what you can control, before the race, during the race.

Andrew: Look at the two of you, in sync.

Mark: We’re like one mind! So pack your nutrition, check your nutrition for the 17th time, whatever it is. Make sure that all the things you need on your bike are set. Make sure your gearing’s working. Make sure you’ve got your goggles. Make sure your bags are packed. If you’re not sure, unpack and repack them, it does not matter. Those are the things you can control. Then in the race, just manage everything that comes up. Again, it will be so much easier to deal with it in the race than it is to think about dealing with it beforehand.

Michellie: I think the other thing that people need to understand is it’s okay to freak out at some point. At some point there is a freak out, and as long as you apologize to the people that you freaked out on, that’s a good thing. I remember, actually I think it was the year that I won, I was walking my bike after getting the final mechanical rundown, and somehow they managed to crack my front wheel.

Andrew: Oh my goodness!

Michellie: I could have totally freaked out, like, “Blahblahblah!” You know what I did? I controlled what I could control. Taking the stickers, my matching pick stickers to match my bike, and thanks to Zipp they supplied me a new wheel, and I spent that time putting those decals back on. So I utilized that freakout possibility time to control the situation.

Mark: My potential total meltdown moment was in my final Ironman. My bike was in the transition area, and my brother did all the mechanical work on my bike.

Michellie: Gary worked on my bike year too for many years.

Mark: Yeah, my brother Gary. He was helping get everything set up, and on the back I had my two water bottle cages. So I pulled my bottles out that I was going to stick in there to have ready to go, I stick them in the water bottle cages, and the whole thing falls off on the ground. This is literally moments before I’m going to go down to the swim start, and Gary had this look of sheer terror in his face. All I said is, “Make sure that is on my bike when I come out of the water.”

Andrew: And you went and you swam!

Mark: Yeah, there was nothing I could do about it. Like Michellie said, focus on what you can control.

Andrew: Either he was going to be able to take care of it, or he wasn’t. Either way, you have the bike.

Michellie: That reminds me of another good story I had. I was doing two races in one weekend. What’s your biggest fear when you travel? Oh my goodness, your bike doesn’t show up! My bike didn’t show up. Even the morning of the race, my bike still isn’t there. But I did what I could control, got another bike organized.

Andrew: You still had the same fitness, you’re still the same athlete. Pink bike decals?

Michellie: I made sure I had a bike in transition, so that when I get out of the swim, it may not have been my bike, but there was a bike in transition. But someone at the airport just happened to be a triathlete. My bike finally arrived, she drove my bike from the airport to the race, and my good friend Mark Lees put it together while I was swimming. So do you know how happy I was when I got out of the water and it was my bike?

Andrew: You weren’t expecting that!

Michellie: No! Oh my god, it made my race. But you know, a worse thing happened. It was a swim-bike-run, swim-bike-run. I broke my toe diving into the water the second swim. So here I was, got my bike, I still won, but I finished the race with a broken toe. I was supposed to race the next day as well, that didn’t happen. But again, it’s amazing having a good team behind you. It makes a big difference.

Mark: Oh my god, that reminds ME of another story.

Andrew: This is the easiest podcast episode for me, I’m just soaking it all in.

Mark: For sure, in a race nothing ever goes perfectly, and that’s just something –

Michellie: Which is funny, right, because I’ve had the worst feelings that I’ve ever felt, like, “Oh my goodness, this is going to be the worst day ever,” and I win!

Mark: You can win on a day that things don’t go perfect.

Michellie: Yeah, that’s important for people to understand.

Mark: But also keep in mind that leading up to the race, things will never go perfectly either. So as best as you can, do not let those things that did not go perfectly affect your race. Don’t have that be the excuse for a bad race. My example of that, I was racing in St. Croix, a half-Ironman distance race. Just like Michellie, my bike did not arrive. They got me a bike that did barely fit me from a local bike shop. I had it together, and literally at midnight, at 12:30 at night, my phone’s ringing in the hotel room, “Your bike just arrived in the airport, and we’ll bring it by.” So it gets to the hotel about 1:30, I put my bike together, now it’s like 2:30 and I’ve got only two hours to sleep. I literally had to just sit myself down and say, “Okay, you’re exhausted. You did not get the sleep that you need, this was the most unrestful night before a race that you’ve ever had. But you cannot use this as an excuse to have a bad race.” Period. You cannot let this be a reason to have a bad race. I ended up winning. It was such a huge lesson for me, with all the experience I’d had to that point, to realize that, leading up to the race a lot’s going to go perfect, some of it’s not. But don’t let those moments be your excuse to have a race that’s less than what you have the potential to have.

Michellie: After listening to you, that’s the other point I was going to bring up, is the fact that sometimes when you aren’t successful, that’s when you learn so much more. All those little things that have happened to you in the past, they’re all great experiences that can help you when you need them. it could be you brought two front wheels to the race instead of a front and a rear

Andrew: Did you do that, Michellie?

Michellie: I may have. I may have worn my helmet backwards.

Andrew: I bed it made for a great photo op.

Michellie: Twice, in the same race, a year apart. But the whole point is, it’s okay sometimes to fail. Sometimes it’s okay to have that breakdown before a race. But it’s how you respond that will really shape what happens on race day. That’s so important in an Ironman, because the whole day is a roller coaster. You feel good, you feel bad, you feel good, you feel bad. Control what you can control, I love that message. The other thing is, it’s never over. It doesn’t matter how much you think that you’re failing out there. Know why you’re out there. That’s a big message that has always helped me, particularly in an Ironman. Know why you’re out there, and have a really good reason. Don’t do it for somebody else. You’re doing it for yourself. Because ultimately, it’s not your coach that’s going to get you across the finish line. Yes, they will prepare you to the best they can. But ultimately it’s how you handle the physical conditions, it’s how you handle the climatic conditions, and it’s how you handle that chimp brain.

Mark: And all of you out there who race, you have your support crew. You have your family, your friends who have helped you get to that start line, who have helped you prepare. I’m sure, if you’re training for an Ironman, that they have sacrificed a lot to support you in this journey. They have done their job, they have helped you. Then on race day, this is your time. So in those moments where you might feel like giving up, or the chimp brain goes off, remind yourself, “This is my time. This is the day where I get to show them what I can do through their support.” That is such a foundation of strength, and it helped me so many times in those down moments where I wanted to give up. I’m like, “If I give up, that will not honor those people that have helped me out. I could not be here without their support, without their help.” My family, my friends, my training partners, my advisors, my mentors. This is my time. They ultimately don’t care if I get first, second, or last. They just want to know that I gave everything that I had on race day, and they will see it. They will know. If I struggle and I have a bad race but I made it through and didn’t give up, they will see that, and they will know that their help was honored, and it’ll complete that circle. So remember those people who are helping you out, and who helped you out to get there.

Andrew: I think a lot of times we put the pressure on ourselves, because we have all that support crew. We have our friends and family, we have our peers in the sport, and they believe in you. They love and support you no matter how the race goes. My wife is an accountant for Price Waterhouse Coopers. She works in the PWC Dallas office, and the PWC Dallas tax department think that I am just the fittest person they’ve ever encountered. I know that I go to Ironman Waco and finish 300th out of a field of 700 athletes at Ironman Waco, I am not the fittest person. I was on the flight here to Kona, and the lady sitting next to me on the plane was like, “Oh, what race did you qualify at?” I was like, “I am very flattered that you look at me and say, ‘That’s a guy who looks like he qualified to be here.’” I’m going for work, I’m not racing, I’m a 12‑hour Ironman athlete, I’m not a 10‑hour qualifying athlete. But I say that to point out, the people in our lives – our friends, our family, our peers, the people that we encounter – just the fact that you are an average triathlete, you are something in their eyes. People admire you already for that. Win, lose, PR, non‑PR – go out there, do the best you can with the fitness you have on the day, do what you can to roll through the moments as the punches come your way, and just enjoy the day from there. Whatever the result is, it's going to be what it’s going to be. But you have to go out there and just do the best you can for yourself, right?

Michellie: Exactly. One thing that I always did leading into the race was I would take a moment right before the start, where I would just close my eyes and just visualize what I wanted to do on that day. It’s amazing that sense of calm that would come over you. I’d visualize where I would be in the swim, how I would feel on the bike, how I would feel when I got off the bike. And at the end of that visualization, I always remembered how fantastic it would be to finish. The spectators, the volunteers, they’re the ones that make the race as well. It’s like you are by yourself, but you’re not, because you have those volunteers, you have the spectators. As Bob Babbitt would always say, “Hey, training’s the hard part!”

Andrew: That’s so true.

Michellie: When you get to the start line, it’s all catered. So I think that just spending a few moments to visualize how you feel that race is going to pan out. Like, I finished second here at my second-ever Ironman, my first attempt in Kona in 2005. I actually dreamt that I got second!

Andrew: Really!?

Michellie: And I’m like, “Why didn’t I dream I won?” But you know, it’s amazing how that subconscious can turn into reality. One of my biggest things that I tell people, “Dream it, believe it, live it!”

Andrew: I know both of you really enjoy working with age‑group athletes. You have age‑group athletes that you coach that are elites, that are here racing Kona this week, and you have age‑group athletes that are very average, like me. You have age‑group athletes that are fairly new to this sport, and are still figuring it out, and just having a good time learning from you. When you’re in those conversations with them, and you know they have a big race on the calendar, you know that race means a lot to them, what are those conversations like? What do you find yourself saying to them to help them deal with the pressure? I think it’s one thing on race morning, you wake up and you go through the motions, you know how to go through the motions. But that week leading up, those two weeks leading up, then you really have time to get that chimp brain going, to get that voice in your head talking to you. Mark, what do you find yourself saying to those athletes as they’re getting a week or so closer to race day, and they’re freaking out a little bit from the pressure?

Mark: You know, there’s no one‑size-fits-all answer to that, because the pressure that somebody feels, or the anxiety that somebody feels, can come from many different sources. One person, it might be they’re freaked out about the swim. Another person might be freaked out about the heat. Someone else, it could be just they don’t know if they’re ready, if they can manage the distance. Everybody has their own specific things that cause them that anxiety that can take the excitement over the edge from being positive to a negative. So I have to really personalize the message for each person.

Andrew: Yeah, that makes sense.

Mark: But basically, I just remind them: one, they’ve done the training, they’re ready. The second thing I remind them is, it’s okay to have nerves, to have anxiety. As we’ve spoken about, just do the things that you have control over in these days leading up to the race. As Michellie said, just take time to reflect on how you want the day to go. I also remind people that I had my sayings or mantras that I was going to pull up when things got tough. Let’s say on the marathon, I had practiced and visualized, “You’re running light as a feather!" or whatever it is. But I tell the athletes, “You know what, those didn’t work for me.” And I’ll tell you why. First of all, usually I couldn’t even remember what they were.

Andrew: Once you were there in the moment.

Mark: Yeah, when I’m in the moment. 

Michellie: It’s like tunnel vision.

Mark: Then secondly, “Oh yeah! That one about the marathon, ‘I feel light as a feather?’ No! I feel like I weigh about a thousand pounds, and I can barely move!’” So in the moment, when it was challenging, I didn’t even believe those things. And when my family and friends are like, “You look great!” I’m like, “No I don’t!”

Andrew: I know what I look like! I know what I feel like!

Mark: Yeah! So I just remind them, when you have those moments, just take a deep breath. Get relaxed. Bring your shoulders down. Get your breathing to go deeper. Slow your breathing rate. Slow your effort, drop your effort level back a little bit. Regroup. Quiet your mind. Regrouping is not giving up.

Andrew: You can always regroup.

Mark: It’s important to regroup, and to just expect that yes, you will have those moments. Then you quiet your mind, and all of a sudden things start to loosen up and you start flowing again. And you’re kind of, “Okay, now I’m in the flow, this is cool again.” But I also remind them, once you hit nirvana, you’re not going to be there forever. You’re going to have another one of those moments. And another, and another, and another. So just keep bringing yourself back to that place of quiet, self-confidence, of getting it out of your way so you can do what you’ve trained your body to do. It knows how to do it.

Andrew: Michellie, what do you find yourself saying to your coached athletes when they’re coming up to a pressure race?

Michellie: So, think about this case scenario that one of my athletes has. He’s sight-impaired. Think about someone like him who’s come to Hawaii for the first time. He raced as basically, I would call it “able bodied,” and now he is sight-impaired. Think about how dramatic the difference is of those two experiences, and think about the sensory overload that he is having right now in this moment. It’s very similar to an able-bodied athlete, but so much more that he has to take into account, right? So for someone like him, I’m going to tell him the same thing as I tell everyone else. Even though his anxiety level is very different because of that impairment, I’m going to tell him the same thing, and very similar to what Mark says. It always comes back to control what you can control. It’s okay to be emotional, but make sure you center it. Make sure you come back and, as Mark said, take a moment to regroup. Understand that this is part of the journey. Particularly here at Ironman World Championship. It’s very special, and yes there is that added pressure, but don’t forget that you need to take the time to go through those emotions. Don’t’ ignore them. Go through them, understand them, and then use them to your benefit. So I’ll be telling him, when I meet with him later, “All those emotions you’ve had all race week, there’s a reason why you had them. When you’re out there on the course, try to refocus that energy that you had.” Like he was saying how proud his dad was going to feel, who’s no longer with us. So using that emotion in a good way, don’t let that emotion drain you. I think that’s a big mistake that people who came in thinking with a purpose other than just swim, bike, and running out there. Don’t let that emotion drain you, use it to your benefit. So if you are having a bad moment, smile! Just a simple smile can make a big difference. And I always tell people take a big deep belly breath, all the way down past your belly button. Take that belly button breath and go, “You know what, my dad’s going to be so proud of me right now. I’m going to keep pushing forward, even though at this moment I feel like I cannot take another step. I’m going to utilize that.” And Mark’s right about the mantras. I would do the other way, I would try to psych out my competitors, that I’d come up with this song that was really annoying, and start singing it.

Andrew: Out loud on the course.

Michellie: No, like before the race, so it would be in their head. But mantras never really work for me. It was always like, “Okay, think about your nutrition. Think about how am I feeling.”

Andrew: Real practical stuff.

Michellie: Yeah. Like my pedal technique, my run technique, the belly breathing, those little things. That’s what I’ll discuss with each one of my athletes. On the swim, think a little bit about technique rather than going, “Oh my goodness, my heart rate is so high, I’m so nervous.” Think about that on the bike, the same thing, “How’s my pacing, how’s my nutrition, how’s my energy level? How’s my mental focus, do I need some caffeine?” And on the run, it’s the same again, like, “Okay, how am I feeling? How’s my form?” Rather than focusing on those mantras, it’s controlling what you can control.

Andrew: That’s always helped me, to make it tangible. We talked at the beginning of the main set here about that race in your career where you felt the most pressure. For me, the race in my career where I felt the most pressure was my first 70.3 I was intimidated by the distance. My wife and I had flown halfway around the world to 70.3 New Zealand. So you do all this travel, you go through all this training, you do your first big training cycle for a long race, and I just remember thinking, “What if I wake up and there’s a massive thunderstorm and we don’t get to race, and we put all this work in?” I just felt pressure of having gone through all the effort to have that race, and just wanting it to go well. I always tell people, no matter how much pressure I feel heading into a race – I always have those nerves, I have that anxiety – I feel that pressure for maybe the first 100 yards or meters. And after that –

Michellie: For me, the sooner the gun goes off, I’m happy.

Andrew: Once I’m in the water and I’ve swam that first 50 yards or meters, it’s a reminder that, “Oh, I’m in the water swimming. I know how to swim. I’ve done this a hundred times.” Sure it’s a big race day, it’s a pressure race day, but once you get in that familiar situation, you’re doing something you know how to do, that you’ve trained how to do. I love early in the main set when both of you shared – as great as each of your careers are and as many things as you accomplished – you still showed up to the start line with pressure, with doubts, with things that went wrong logistically, leading up to that race. Not knowing what bike was going to be waiting for you in transition when you got there, not knowing what state your bike was going to be in. As an age‑grouper, it’s interesting to know that no matter what level you ascend to in this sport, race day is going to be race day. Things are going to wrong, and you just have to roll with it, and have the best day that you can with what the day gives you.

Michellie: Roll with the punches.

Andrew: It’s so funny, I’m scanning through the questions I scripted for this episode, and you guys just naturally riffing, I think this probably the most organic conversation we’ve had on the TriDot podcast.

Michellie: See, that’s why we didn’t want to see the questions.

Andrew: Yeah, Mark Allen always refuses to see the questions.

Mark: I don’t want to see them, yeah.

Andrew: And Michellie, you were that way.

Michellie: I just need to know what the topic is and I’m good. I mean, that’s where that experience comes in, right?

Mark: One last reminder for all the athletes listening, is that things don’t have to go perfectly to have an amazing day. A story from my career: as you mentioned in my bio, I won the Nice International Triathlon ten times out of ten starts. Which to me is more amazing than winning Kona six times, because I didn’t win here six times. But in Nice, every time I started, ten different years, I won it. But one year I woke up and I was achy and I had a little bit of a fever, and I thought, “I can’t race, I’m sick!” Then I go, “Well, you know, I flew all the way here –”

Andrew: “I put in all that effort!”

Mark: “I put in all that effort, I’m thinking about Andrew and New Zealand –“

Andrew: Naturally, yeah. I’m an inspiration to you!

Mark: Yeah, you are, absolutely. And I thought, “Just do the swim, then you can drop out.” So I went through the swim and I came out of the water, and I was still feeling achy but I thought, “You know, maybe I should just get on the bike, and I can just pull out at any point.” So I got on the bike and I was going through the bike ride, and next thing I know I’m at the end of the bike and I’m thinking, “I certainly don’t feel perfect, but maybe I’ll just start the run.” Then by the time I got to the turnaround on the run, I had moved into second place. Scott Tinley was just a couple minutes ahead of me on the road, and I’m like, “Oh my god, I started this day feeling so sick that I wasn’t even going to race, and now I’m in second place, in position to possibly win.” And I ended up passing him and going on for a win that day. So for me, that was such an amazing, potent lesson. As Michellie said, some of the biggest lessons come out of the toughest moments. A day where I was literally sick at the start of the day, I ended up winning one of the biggest races of my entire career.

Andrew: We’ve had so many TriDot athletes that I’ve seen post to our Facebook group saying, “I had a race this weekend. I didn’t think I could do it. The training wasn’t perfect leading into it, I didn’t feel great, maybe I got sick a week or two before the race. Maybe they didn’t end up with the race they wanted initially, but they always respond, “I got through it, I reached that finish line, it was a great moment, and I’m glad I went out there and did it.”

Michellie: I think my takeaway from Mark is “break the race down”.

Andrew: Yeah, one leg at a time.

Michellie: Get through the swim. Get to the first turn buoy, get to the second, get to the turnaround. That’s how you should be racing anyway, because that’s part of the motivation, right? I just need to get to the next aid station. I just need to get to the turnaround. And in the end, I just need to get to the finish. I think that’s important. Have the best swim you can on the day you’re given, have the best bike you can have on the day you're given, and have the best run you can run on the day you’re given.