Thriving as a Neurodivergent Triathlete

Andrew Harley: Hey everybody, welcome to the TriDot Podcast. today we are starting what will be a pretty good series. We're gonna let this series go. I don't even know exactly how many weeks. It might be four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, where every single week on the TriDot Podcast for the foreseeable future, we're gonna hit episodes on how to thrive as a triathlete of a different type. And so today we're talking about how to thrive as a neurodivergent triathlete, which will be a fascinating topic. we're gonna have an episode on how to thrive as an older triathlete, how to thrive as a newer triathlete, how to thrive as a beginner triathlete, how to thrive as a really experienced we wanna just hit whatever type of triathlete you are, whatever your life is like around triathlon. We want to bring coaches on who are gifted at coaching, that type of triathlete. It just give you wisdom, give you advice, give you some tips on how to train and race as that kind of triathlete from coaches who have been there, done that, and so much more. So hopefully you find this series really helpful. Hopefully you relate to one, two, three, four episodes within this series. and honestly, what this series is going to help me do selfishly, my wife and I are expecting our second baby. in just a few weeks. I don't think I've publicly said that on the TriDot Podcast or on social media. So yay, you heard it here. Hooray. So this will just be a really fun series and an easier series for me to pull off week to week while I'm kind of in newborn baby mode. So, anyway, with that out of the way, our coach today to help us learn how to thrive as a neurodivergent triathlete is Coach Raya Usher. Raya is the co-founder of Precision Coaching based in the UK. She has been competing in triathlon since 2015, and now serves as the head of coaching services for TriDot. Raya, good to see you. How are you?

Raya Usher: Andrew, it's so nice to be back. It's really great to see you. Although I get to see you on internal meetings, it's just so nice to be back on a podcast.

Andrew Harley: All the time, yeah, all the time. And I've Ray, I've been leaving you alone. as we're talking about newborn babies. You have a newborn baby in your household. Do you want to tell our folks about Toby? About good old Toby.

Raya Usher: We do. Yeah, we do. We've got a three month old, almost four. He is doing absolutely amazing. He is my first, but our third in the family because we are a blended family. And it's just been amazing. Such you know, all new parents, I salute you. It is tough. But it is so rewarding. and yeah, we're just absolutely loving it. I'm in that baby bubble phase right now.

Andrew Harley: Well it and Ray, we have I I've got two TriDot coaches lined up to come on and talk to us about how to be a working parent and train for triathlon. Maybe you and I literally can get back on and do how to like if you have specifically a newborn in the house. That's a lot different than having older kids. But anyway, I'm Andrew, the average triathlete, voice of the people, captain in the middle of the pack. As always, we will roll through our warm-up question, settle in for our main set conversation and then wind things down with today's cooldown. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it. When you've been in the Sport of Triathlon for as long as Raya and I have, you collect a lot of gear. if you've been in triathlon for a year or two, you've probably collected a lot of gear. And I'm curious to hear for today's warm-up question: what is the oldest triathlon-related item that you still actively use? Rhea, what is this for you?

Raya Usher: Ha ha ha. Well, this is going to be a slightly embarrassing answer, but it's also very apt of an answer for this subject matter that we are doing today, because honestly, I can say absolutely nothing. I know that nothing is that old. nothing. Now, saying that, there is a slightly bit of me who is a neurodivergent hoarder. And so over the last six months, just before the baby was coming, I have found all of the gear that I had from that period in time when I first started triathlon. so I own it, I just no longer use it. and I think it's a really good start with Why? Well, us neurodivergents can have a tendency to spend a little bit of extra unnecessary money. We also have a tendency to start a million and one different sports, hobbies, interests. And what I tend to do, I've learned that very young.

Andrew Harley: Ha ha ha. So so, triathlon's a great triathlon's a great sport because you get three sports in one, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Raya Usher: Because there's three. Yes, exactly. You could when you can you can see where this is going. so I decided when I first started triathlon, because I had been through about nineteen different hobbies that year, that I was going to buy everything cheap in case I decided that six months later I was never going to do it again. So I bought everything, like everything on eBay. I bought my bike on eBay. I bought it like everything. my bike was too big for me. I because I didn't know the measurements, like the gear ratios were all wrong. I literally bought everything on eBay and probably within six months everything was replaced. So the honest answer is nothing, but I still own it all because I'm a bit of a hoarder.

Andrew Harley: Okay. Very, very interesting. So you have some old stuff, just none of it is actively being used. Gotcha, gotcha. this answer for me, so I've been in the sport a little similar to you. 2014 is when I started racing triathlons. obviously I came into the sport as a runner, so I had to get all the bike and swim stuff, right? Goggles and swim jammers and wetsuits. And I kind of like every single race I would do, I would pick up a new item, right? Like my first couple triathlons were pool swims, so I didn't need a wetsuit. And so, like four races in, I finally signed up for an open water swim and needed a wetsuit. And so I kind of like picked up the items over the first year or two. The oldest thing I have that is still actively used are the first pair of clipless pedals that I bought. And so I did, yeah. So I did like three or four sprints with just like the flat platform pedals, whatever they're called. And then I finally moved to like you know, upgraded to the clipless you know, cleats. And the clipless pedals. And so probably 2015-2016, I was buying my first pair of pedals, proper pedals. and then a few years later, I got my first set of power pedals. And so now the power pedals are on the outdoor bike, but those original clipless pedals that I bought are on my indoor bike that is set up. I I have like the Garmin, like you know, indoor bike thing, and and so I put those pedals on there. They're old, but they do the job indoors and So anyway, that is the oldest piece of equipment. I mean, like you, like I've got I've upgraded bikes multiple times. You know, you change shoes out every single year. You buy new kits, you buy new wetsuits. but those pedals from twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen are the oldest thing I have that I still use. Thank you. Thank you. And from this conversation, now I'll probably have the itch to buy a new set. We're gonna throw this question out to our audience. If you're watching us on YouTube or Spotify, comment right below. I check those comments. I answer them personally. Let us know. What is the oldest thing that you still have that you use in your triathlon journey? you can also answer this question on the I Am Trotted Facebook group. I'll throw it out to our folks on there. Can't wait to hear what you have to say. Excited to dig into this topic, how to thrive as a triathlete who is neurodivergent. And Raya, let's start with this one. our neurodivergent folks will already know the answer. So maybe this is not a question we need to ask. But for everybody else listening that maybe hasn't heard that term before, what does it mean to be neurodivergent?

Raya Usher: Sure. well, good place to start for sure. And it is become quite a hot topic, but it is effectively just a really fancy buzzword that means those who've been diagnosed with some form of capacity of neurodivergence means our brain is just wired ever so slightly differently than a typical or neurotypical person. So you'll have heard a lot of these words before or anagrams, ADHD, ADD, Autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia, you all of those fit in that neurodivergence. And the reason why they've created that neurodivergence is because the other hot word you might have heard recently is spectrum. Because there is such a vast broad spectrum of severity or ease of how you can suffer or have a neurodivergence. So I have two. I have dyslexia and ADHD. Both cause different things. I don't know if I would show off but what is what is effectively having one of those spectrums effectively means that our operating system, our brain, works a little bit different. but sometimes those differences become real superpowers, especially in sport or triathlon, when you really understand how to harness them and use them.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, no, very, very good. I and I Yeah, I I've been obviously aware for a long time of ADD, ADHD, dementia, some of the things you mentioned. I just started seeing the term neurodivergent pop up just in the last few years, right? is where I I first saw that term. and so great topic for today. I years ago I got a master's degree in education. little Andrew Harley trivia. but for a number yeah, yeah, yeah.

Raya Usher: Hm. Huh. Good to know, I had no idea.

Andrew Harley: for a number of years, my brother and I were the children's pastors at a church in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And while I was doing that, I just kind of wanted to know more about education and how to connect with you know, young people and kids and how people learned things. And honestly, in my master's degree studies, one of the things I found the most fascinating was the coursework on when you're a classroom teacher and you are, you know, preparing a lesson plan for your class, there's like the default. Lesson plan. Okay, here's what we're doing. But then you have to think about who's in your classroom, what are the what neurodivergent populations are represented in your classroom. And you have to take that lesson plan and tweak it for both sides of the spectrum. Right. And I was in Texas, they call it gifted and talented. In in Florida, they called it Alpha. I was in the Alpha program in the state of Florida, which I'm sure they've changed that now, because that sounds horrible to call it that now. But that that is a form of being on the spectrum. Right. Of being in the class that, you know, your brain processes faster than the other kids. So you're gonna be put in this classroom. So anyway, that that part of my coursework and my master's degree was some of my I found it to be some of the most interesting stuff in that entire thing. So really excited to dig into this topic today and hear how this applies to being a triathlete. So for you, Raya, when was it that you were diagnosed as neurodivergent and what did that knowledge change for you?

Raya Usher: Yeah. Well, we have a I was diagnosed twice effectively. So I was first diagnosed with dyslexia when I was twenty one. I was flunking out of my first year of university and we couldn't understand why, because similar to you, Andrew, I f often process things much more quickly and really t take things in very, very well as long as it is delivered interestingly. if it's Delivered with and it's dry and it's not interesting. I can set put it put my head in sin and not yeah, and I'm out. I'm out the door and I'm playing with a fidget toy and I'm doodling and I'm done. so that was the first time I was diagnosed, but it came as no surprise to us because we have we're a family of neurodivergence. So my dad is 100% ADHD. however he is much older than any when any of testing started because testing for neurodivergence is only ever started in the late nineteen eighties. i on a full public spectrum. but you know, we look at my grandmother who's now since passed away but lived to 98 and was a also 100% ADHD. my mom is neurotypical, but her brother has autism and my brother has odd ADHD. Although it wasn't diagnosed like that back in the 80s. so we always suspected I might have it, but girls mask all forms, most forms of neurodivergence, especially when they're younger. so it was only when I got to 21 that I we couldn't understand why this smart, intelligent, you know, human being had flunked out of their first year of university when I had also had the confidence to go away. Hang on a second, I know more. than in about my first year university course than any other person in this course. There's no way I should have flunked out. And with the support of the university, I got diagnosed and made my way, negotiated my way back in school. and ended up doing very brilliantly because I'd learned how to deal with my dyslexia. I was then diagnosed with ADHD much more recently, although it again came as no surprise to anyone who's ever met me because everyone sees how hyper I am generally. but it was during COVID. and that well, I appreciate that. Never run out of anything to say. so I was 36 when I was first diagnosed with ADHD, and it was because during COVID we couldn't leave the house. And me not being able to leave the house, it was like telling a five year old to sit still and don't move. And we all know if you're a parent, that's never gonna happen.

Andrew Harley: It makes you a great podcast guest, Rhea. It yeah.

Raya Usher: And it really saved me because I was really struggling with the ability to focus, with the ability not to be able to escape and not even though we had a great little gym and I had my turbo trainer, I couldn't just run down to the pool and I couldn't go out and run in the trails like I was used to. So I didn't have that release of energy and endorphins that I needed. but wow, let me tell you, when I was finally diagnosed and I knew exactly what was going on with my brain, it helped me reframe everything. suddenly all those things that I used to beat myself up for years about, you know, saying the wrong thing or people getting upset with you, or things that I truly thought were character flaws, is light bulb turned on. And I suddenly realized that actually it was just the way my brain worked as opposed to it being something that was bad. And it really gave me permission to stop forcing myself to fit into everyone else's ecosystem. and start building the structures and the way that I needed to work that really fit me. And that shift was like going from like what's wrong with me to wow, like I can really work this through and I can thrive. And it was a game changer.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, fascinating. And I I do belong in this conversation a little bit. I I'm not as fancy as you are in my neurodivergence. so when I was in elementary school, again, I think it was third grade, I was just bored in the regular classroom. They had done they did like an IQ test and some other tests and put me in that the alpha program as it was called back in the nineties in Florida.

Raya Usher: Okay. You only have one? Ha ha ha

Andrew Harley: And so just in there with the more academically gifted kids who process things quicker and different. and somewhere in there, I was diagnosed as just mildly ADD. and I it it's kinda like you said earlier. If I if I was engaged with material, I could I could focus with material that I was excited about for hours and hours and hours. But if I got bored, I was gone. I was checked out, right? And they did they did put me on medication. just like a low dose of something. I don't even remember what it is. I remember not liking the way I felt on it. and I don't remember why. I just I remember telling my mom, like, I really don't like taking this. I don't I don't know, it just does something to me that I don't I don't and so I just kinda quietly stopped taking it and just learned strategies for staying more organized, staying more alert, staying more focused in certain places where I need to be focused. and so I just I just carry the knowledge that I am slightly ADD and I've I've got to make myself focus, focus up, especially when I start checking out. But so anyway, so that's yeah, that's me. So just to preface that as we go into the conversation, I'm sure I will mention my ADD-ness a little bit here and there. But

Raya Usher: Completely. I would have never guessed that you or I really had ADHD no.

Andrew Harley: Really? As well as we can talk and chase rabbits when we talk. so you've said Rea and specifically it was in we were building some coursework for coaches to get ESCI certified. and you were doing a lesson plan for coaches to learn how to be a coach where you covered the different yeah as a coach, knowing what type of athlete you enjoy working with. and you and Mark Allen were on the same lesson and you were both kind of sharing, I like working with these athletes, I like working with these athletes. And you specifically said, I really enjoy working with neurodivergent athletes, because I feel like I relate to them well because of my own neurodivergence. that was a quote from you in that lesson plan. What is so special for you? And to be clear, you don't only work with neurodivergent athletes. You will you're not a snob about it. You'll work with some neurotypicals.

Raya Usher: I do. No I don't. No. I'm not.

Andrew Harley: But what's special to you about getting the coach somebody who is neurodivergent?

Raya Usher: I think when you are neurodivergent, it's can be really difficult to meet someone in a hobby or interest or sport that you're doing that really relates to you and can really understand it. Now, being ADHD and dyslexia doesn't mean I understand all forms of neurodivergency and but I can really resonate to when someone is feeling different. or not or struggling because I've struggled with those things. And on the flip side, I love the chaos and the excitement and the energy that the typical neurodivergent brings to the table because that fuels my endorphins and it fuels my energy levels a lot. so it's not just working with athletes. It is genu genuinely working day to day with neurodivergence that I really love and thrive. You think about our working relationship, absolutely love it. Our head coach at precision, Sean Macintosh, he is autistic and ADHD, so odd ADHD. And I honestly can't tell you I enjoy working with anyone else more. Because we both understand each other. And when I'm frustrated about something, he completely understands, and vice versa. So we can work through issues much better. It's just it's having that ability to understand and process that we don't think the same. And that I want to be a safe space for someone who feels like that. and I think also neurodivergence. Tend to gravitate towards each other because they feel the synapses working in the same direction, if that makes sense. if I look at our group of coaches that we have at Precision, there's 10 of us. I would say we're not all diagnosed, but I would say six of us are neurodivergent in some capacity. maybe seven. We're on the fence with one of them. And we all love it. We thrive being a group of excitable, overzealous, energized. We're like sometimes like little lost puppy dogs. And then we've got two or three of them that are super neurotypical that basically bring us down and like help us level out. That's Annette and Will, mainly. but it's great. It's just I l I I absolutely love it because I feel like I can really resonate and hopefully help. And bring the same level of energy. The other thing is that often neurodivergence can have really, really strong moments of huge energy. And then our social battery or our energy depletes. And then we can find it incredibly difficult to find that motivation and the energy because we've depleted it so much that we find it incredibly difficult to rebuild the battery. And it's something that I really understand. And often If your athletes or colleagues batteries are depleted, you can help them replace that because you're not depleted at the same time. and so you can really be there for one another. And that's typically why I love work working with athletes and coaches alike who are who are like me.

Andrew Harley: Mm. Yeah. So I'm gonna ask a question that admittedly I expect to procure a funny or slightly embarrassing story from you. And don't worry, I will share one as well. but as a neurodivergent athlete yourself, what is a lesson you learned the hard way that you can now help your neurodivergent athletes avoid?

Raya Usher: I have so many that I am overwhelmed and trying to find one was hard. so for those of you who are listening and are neurodivergent, you will all probably agree that sometimes we can be the most brilliant people in the world, but our organizational skills can be a little bit lackluster. and as Andrew and I have both said, doing mundane tasks can be quite a challenge for us. So simple things like packing for a triathlon is painstaking for me. now I survive on making lists. I have a list for everything. I have and I have a folder of lists that are printed out and like literally kept in like plastic sheets because I will lose my phone and then lose the list. And so I also have them backed up on my phone in case I lose the folder because that also can happen on a regular basis. so one race I was racing by myself. I was flying off to Austria. I was so proud of myself because I had packed everything, I checked it, and I was like, I have absolutely everything. I nailed the transfer. I didn't miss my flight. Yes, I have missed flights before because of my ADHD. We call it the ADHD tax. I I was so proud of myself. I'd been to I racked my bike and everything was in transition. And I was like, my god, I have absolutely nailed this. I did my like fuel fueling to the T. My carb load was amazing. I literally was like, I have rocked this. I have finally got myself sorted. And I'd happened to meet a guy racing. He was staying in the hotel room next to me, and we and it was this little like Austrian pension. So the walls were paper thin. And we could hear, like I could hear him rustling paper, and vice versa. Anyways, I said, Good luck, we'll see you in the morning. And we both agreed we'd have breakfast together and walk down to transition. So he wakes up, he goes to breakfast, I'm nowhere to be seen. And he's like, Where is this woman? Anyways, I'd done everything, everything. Except set my alarm to race the next day. And had he not been there, I would have slept through the triathlon. Get up. The last step. Just get up.

Andrew Harley: The last step. The last yeah. You had a hundred and forty three things to do before race day and you did a hundred and forty two of them.

Raya Usher: Correct. And that happens all the time. Like I I forget things. So I am that typical person in in transition or at re registration when it's like don't use anything for the first time, but because I've forgotten it, I'm buying it in the expo so I can have it for race day. ADHD tax, my friend.

Andrew Harley: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. My yeah, my my story here, I was doing a local sprint here in the Dallas Fort Worth area, maybe twenty minutes from my house. and my parents were in town from Florida. My my dad was staying with me, and me and my dad were gonna do this local sprint. And so we had everything set up. I'd you know, I'd done this sprint a number of times before, it's pretty close to my house. I had my bags packed, the bike packed, bikes were in the car, you know. backpack with all my gear was by the front door where I would normally put it before race day. And for me, Raya, I'm I can be fairly organized, especially when I take the time to make sure I'm properly organized and I was properly organized. I one thing I struggle with is I'm very good at multitasking if I do not have to talk. I can keep seven different household processes going at once, laundry, entertaining the kiddo, making dinner Like I can do a bunch of stuff at once and crush it, you know, multiple work tasks at once if I'm not talking. If I am talking out loud, I cannot do anything else. We like my wife and I, she knows we will be driving down the highway through downtown Dallas. And if she has me like going on about a story, I will miss our exit in a heartbeat because I just cannot navigate. I cannot navigate and talk at the same time. and so anyway, so you know, normally on a race morning, it's just me and my wife in the house, and I'm quietly making breakfast, having my breakfast, quietly getting in the car. But since my parents were in town, I'm chatting with them at breakfast, I'm chatting with my dad about the race. We're getting all hyped up. We get down to the race site. I didn't have my backpack. I didn't grab my backpack that was right by the door that had all of my gear in it. And you know, we get there and transition's closing in like seven minutes, and I'm like, no, where's my bag? I fly home, I get back to the race site. Transition had been closed for like 30 minutes. But thankfully, it's just a local event. Like the sweet volunteer running transition, you know, was like, yeah, you can set up your stuff. And I set up my stuff and I got to do the race. But by the time I jumped in the water, like my heart rate was like already at like 160 just from like Yeah, just from flooring at home and getting my stuff. And anyway, so that's an occasion where I learned the hard way. Like

Raya Usher: You'd warmed up just from be being ADD

Andrew Harley: Yeah, make sure you got all of your stuff, double check, triple check, even if it's things that you feel like you're on top of. so Ray, a lot of fun stuff about our experiences, but I'm curious to pick your brain as a coach on like what you tell athletes to do when it comes to different corners of their triathlon experience as a neurodivergent. And I I'm curious, like, as you work with these kind of athletes, what are the typical places that a neurodivergent athlete will struggle relative to a neurotypical triathlete?

Raya Usher: So there's a few things. It all it always depends because when you are neurodivergent, you again we talk about that s that sliding scale of severity versus what you are. So if you're autistic versus ADHD, you might have different struggles. So it always depends on the athlete that I'm working with. one problem that a lot of my ADHD athletes have and myself is we struggle with executive function. So my story, like the logistics of juggling three sports, it's a lot to handle. It can be overwhelming. but it also creates the opportunity to have incredible structure because we as neurodivergents do not like structure. But we thrive with it. And that can be one of the most frustrating things when people look at us and go, they are all over the place. Like they like you like your example is perfect, Andrew. I am with you. I can multitask and when I hyperfocus, I can get so much work done. But the minute my husband needs something, he breaks the cycle. Like war could break out because he's ruined the flow state. Like, and that executive function is really difficult to manage. I think our spouses would have a field day talking about us by the way. so helping them with really planning around life because your typical your neurodivergent athlete could also be a parent. They could also be working full-time, they could be all of those things. So they're not only worried about executive function with juggling all of their sports, they have to juggle life on top of that, and that can become quite overwhelming. So we really work on creating a system that works for them. the other thing that can be really big is consistency because for a lot of neurodivergence, motivation can ebb and flow to the extreme. So some neurotypicals are gonna be like, yeah, I know we're all like that, right? Now, if you are neurotypical and your motivation can ebb and flow, imagine the peaks and troughs being exponentially higher and lower than what you've ever experienced before. So the lows can actually become real lows where we can struggle with depression or anxiety or things that become very overwhelming. So being able to work on consistency where we're really focusing on making sure that when there is a low, we bring ourselves back. And when there is a super high, we don't overtrain. So there's risk when we're both in those two flow states. And thirdly, I really work on something that I would like to call time blindness. so often it can be something that's really I will I could spend, I have an hour workout, but it might take me four hours to do that workout because I'm procrastinating or not even procrastinating. I am like, right, I need to go and get my trainers. I go to get my trainers to go do my run, and then I realize that one of my trainers next to it is dirty. Now, a neurotypical is going to look at those and go, I can clean those later. I go, my God, I can't believe I didn't clean those. So then I go to clean the trainers that have nothing to do with the trainers I need to get onto the treadmill. Bring the trainers back. Then you see something else. You're like, my God, I haven't taken the bins out. So then you go and take the bins out. So to get to the treadmill can take an hour to two hours longer than the neurotypical because the neurotypical is able to drown out the white noise.

Andrew Harley: It's it Yeah, it's reminded me of the children's book If You Give a Mouse a Cookie. I don't know. I don't know if you've read that one lately, or I'm sure you will, but yeah.

Raya Usher: Yeah. Ha ha. It's just like that. So trying to pinpoint where each person their struggles are and having processes and practices in place to be able to measure and overcome them.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, so good. What are like the core and obviously like it just like so many things we talk about on this podcast, like it's going to differ from athlete to athlete to athlete because everybody's situation is a little bit different, right? But what are maybe the core pieces of coaching wisdom you offer that that you find help all of your triathletes thrive in their training as neurodivergent?

Raya Usher: Totally. Okay, great question. And this totally even if you are a atypical, this is very valid for everyone. one is it's really important to build systems that work for you and not rely on willpower because willpower is one day going to lose. so having systems and infrastructure in place that even if willpower or motivation is lacking, the system still works. in you know, that's really, really important. two, helping people make actionable plans that are simple, clear, and you can do on a day to day or daily basis. making things too difficult, too overwhelming means that we will traditionally fail. I think it's really important to always remember that not all workouts are created equally and so if things have to change that's absolutely fine. finally working with your energy and not against it. So on the days that you've got a really big high or pi a big peak then and you only have an easy day scheduled maybe we turn that we switch those sessions around to really embrace the high energy when you might find that you have a low energy day the next day. So really juggling the schedule to make sure That it follows your energy levels. And finally, one thing that I find I've personally really found incredible is something called body doubling for your accountability. Body doubling, if you've never heard of it before, is effectively doing the same thing with someone else, which basically means training partners, which is so powerful. you know, if you have a swim that day, go and find someone who also needs to have a swim. It doesn't even have to be someone doing the same swim session as you. I've got loads of neighbors who go and like they do head up breast stroking and I'll message them and go, Hey, do you need to go to the pool today? And if you do, what time? You know, if I don't have any triathletes going swimming. Body doubling can be one of the most powerful tools. It's finding your tribe to do it with you, to keep you accountable and have those regular check-ins. Last but not least is remember that it's not perfection we're looking for, it's just progress. So a messy workout that you've just finished beats a perfect one that you skipped.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, great. Yeah. I and I I think back to like when I first saw my very first like Facebook ad for TriDot. and clicked on it, decided to give this thing a shot over ten years ago now, if you can believe that. And I think to or I guess right about right out about ten years ago. But there we go, ADD trying to pen it down. the I remember Thinking. You know, I I was aware that some people followed training plans for these kinds of events. I was aware that some people had coaches for this type of stuff. You know, I was just kind of I would get off work and if I felt like swimming, I would swim. If I felt like running, I would run. And just as long as I did a little bit of all three sports throughout the week, I felt like I was doing okay. and so when I saw like the ad for Tri Dot, I was intrigued by it. I clicked on it, I signed up. I remember thinking, I am not gonna like this. Because I'm not gonna like losing the freedom to do what I feel like doing with each workout day. Like if my program says go run for an hour and I feel like hopping on the bikes, it's a nice day, I'm not gonna like that. I was so freaking wrong. And it's probably because it's probably because of my ADD, exactly. Like I loved it. I loved not having to put mental energy towards what am what is my workout today.

Raya Usher: Mm. Came. Mm-hmm. The str I told you. You thrive with structure. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Harley: What am I gonna do later today? Like I loved waking up looking at the app and having the app just tell me. Go do this. And while you do it, do it for this long with these intervals. Like it was and it was amazing. And I I embraced it so quickly and saw such performance gains so quickly, as opposed to doing it on my own. So I'm vibing with everything you're saying on this training bit. But both of our stories for you and I both, when we talked about a time that it bit us in the butt. Being neurodivergent. They were race day stories, right? Because with the training, you know, you can get good at the training. You can practice the training and how to be good at the training every single day, but race day comes around a couple times a year, right? So when it comes to race day and nailing all the things that come we're really race week, right? There's a lot of things packed into race week to nail your race day that I think can present a challenge to a neurodivergent athlete. When race week is coming up, what when you start having those conversations, what do you talk about? What do you what do you help your athletes nail?

Raya Usher: A a lot of it is around planning and execution. So we make sure we really talk about logistics of getting there. I work with each athlete very differently. So I've worked with an athlete in the past who if it wasn't it's almost like that if it's not on Strava it didn't happen. If it wasn't in her diary, it wasn't happening. So we literally would plan out, okay, what time are you leaving to go to the airport? And we would block out the drive to the airport, the flight, we'd block out the flight time. And then we would like put in the diary exactly what time she was getting the car and the name of the driver and his telephone number. And we literally planned everything out almost to the minute because then it meant she didn't spiral into one of those, a cookie. And it just helped her really plan everything out. so we mapped it. Same with race day. We literally mapped out pacing and what to fuel and we had a time and we put a whole strip on her bike of exactly at what kilometer or time marker she was supposed to do everything. which gave her that structure that she needed and a plan to execute.

Andrew Harley: Which Rea, can we say our friends at Precision Fuel and Hydration now sell stickers? They have stickers that you can put on your bike to give yourself a fun map of when to take. Anyway, please continue.

Raya Usher: They have one. I know. They're so clever. Yes. And actually if you are neurodivergent, it's even more interesting that because it gives you the color and the interest rather than just a a written statement. So it's very it's very handy. and so and then it also depends again on what sort of what sort of neurodivergent you are. so autistic athletes that I work with, it is more about planning for the sensory overloads. So the crowds, the expos, the nervous energy, all of that stuff that me as an ADHD, I thrive in, you know, meeting new people, like talking to everyone. Ooh, new things that I can buy. If you have autism, generally speaking, those are the areas that are going to absolutely overwhelm you. So we make sure Let's you I don't want you to spend any time in the expo. Just go and get your bib and your registration pack and get out of there. You know, it's just making sure we plan around w how they thrive in Excel.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, no, really, really good. there's a part of training and racing, right, where it can get mental, right? And race day that there's a certain intensity and a certain amount of staying focused you that you need to have a good race day, not forgetting nutrition, not forgetting what your paces are, not getting distracted and all of a sudden you've left time on the table because you mentally checked out and you're running too easy. probably the same thing in intervals during a workout, right? If you've got Five run intervals at four minutes apiece where you gotta really crank up the intensity. There's a certain mental focus that it takes to really crush that. when it comes to the mental side of triathlon, both in training and racing, what do you give your neurodivergent athletes to stay sharp and stay dialed in for those moments they really need it?

Raya Usher: again really depends on what side of the spectrum your neurodivergent athlete is on because interestingly, not always because everyone is different, but those tough sessions and the focus is really like autistic athletes really thrive with that. They're really great at repetitive sessions, doing the same thing over and over and over again. They really thrive in the pool because they're great at looking at that black line. So what we're really looking here for is answering those who have got ADHD that really struggle with like thinking like their mind wandering and not like, you know, I'm sometime thinking about, what am I gonna make for dinner? my gosh, I wonder if the baby's gonna wake up. Like I really struggle to focus. So and my brain deals beautifully with over stimuli. So when I'm on a training session, you will often in the gym hear me listening to incredibly loud music. with Zwift on, with the music on, and maybe a movie with subtitles on in the background. Because then I can do like a five hour turbo with stimuli all around and get the workout done. And it doesn't matter what sort of workout it is. Yeah, right? Everyone is different. Like I've said that to people before they're like, you are crazy. And I am a little bit. literally. So it's kind of

Andrew Harley: That would freak me out. That would freak me out. Yeah. Like, yes, literally, yeah. Medically, kind of. Yeah.

Raya Usher: So it's all about finding what works for each individual athlete with ensuring that they can successfully complete either the race or the training session or make sure that they have the right stimuli around them to in order to be able to complete that. with some athletes, it could be that they just need pure silence. so always figuring out the anchors and the cues that work for each athlete.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I think honestly the parts of training I struggle the most with isn't the hard intensity stuff that even if it's repetitive. Like I think I struggle with, hey, bike for the next two hours in zone two. What? Please break this up. Please chunk this for me where I can switch up what I'm actually doing so the time goes by faster. I something we haven't touched on really at all is medication. Right. A lot of neurodivergent athletes, not all of them, but a lot of them will have a medication, multiple medications that help manage certain symptoms of their neurodivergence. And sometimes those might clash with certain supplements that are beneficial to triathletes or certain products that are beneficial to triathlete. What when it comes to the medications somebody is prescribed for their neurodivergence and the things you need to do as a triathlete, what do you tell people here? Is there anything An athlete needs to know about managing all of that.

Raya Usher: Yes, there's a lot to know here. So first and foremost, let me say that I am a coach. I'm not a doctor. So medication related needs to go to a physician and any prescription needs to be obviously prescribed by them. it is also important to note that it is most of the medicines that we take as neurodivergents are to a neurotypical performance enhancing, which means they are banned by Wada. Now If you have a a diagnosis from a psychologist or psychiatrist, then you can get something called a TUI, which is effectively a form that says that you take these for a medical condition. and interestingly, trust me, I take medic I haven't taken them for a while because I've had a baby, but I do take them because they do really help me in very small doses. And they are not performance enhancing because we as neurotype as neurodivergents our brains are just wired differently. So they completely chill me out, they zone me, I'm able to focus. but they can cause some really adverse side effects for us. Not for everyone, and it also depends on how strong of a dose you take of these medicines. but they can be quite detrimental to your appetite, to your hydration levels. rate, to your sleep patterns. it might help you concentrate, but physically it can do some quite negative things to your body, which will really impact your training. so it's really, really important that I work with either the physician or with someone who is monitoring their medicine to make sure that we are keeping hydrated, that we are, and actually with a lot of people, it's not about keeping hydrated, it's about making sure you're not drinking you're not over drinking because a lot of people can be incredibly thirsty with it. So whilst they really help with a lot of great things, it can be quite detrimental to your training. so it's just about keeping the channel of communications open, you know, sometimes and as adults, most of us can self regulate our medication. We're old enough that we know on some days maybe we don't need it, on other days we really will. I I know for me, I have different medication doses. So if I have to do a full day of work, I'm gonna take a full dose. If I'm only doing two or three hours of calls, then I might take a much smaller dose so I don't have to have the effects all day long. And that's a very powerful tool for adults. as kids, in your experience, Andrew, it means it often means we're taking big doses and that has to last all day 'cause it has to last through school, which can be have a really adverse effect. So always work have your coach work with your doctor. make sure your coach knows exactly the side effects of the particular medicine that you're on and monitor and evaluate those all the time. Because the last thing you want to be doing is dropping huge amounts of weight, be overhydrated and not have the right amount of electrolyte balance, have your HRVs like way off kilter. and you're not sleeping well because that could definitely lead to lots of injuries and niggles.

Andrew Harley: Yeah, I I've really enjoyed this conversation, Raya. it's always fun talking with you and I've learned a ton here to today and I hope our audience has as well. if an athlete listening today just feels like, man, this is some good stuff. I definitely fall in this camp in one way or another, and they're interested in having yourself or a coach like you work with them on just dialing in their training and racing as a neurodivergent, what step would you encourage them to take?

Raya Usher: like anyone, if you want to work with a coach, check their credentials, just talk to them. Check to see if you guys vibe to make sure that you really they understand you and you understand them. It's all about finding someone that you feel that you can trust and that that relationship is strong. I'm really, really fortunate that at Precision Coaching, we have six coaches who understand all different. types of neurodivergence and we can work with almost anyone and we've had some amazing success stories. so yeah, I mean we're very blessed. reach out, say hi. I have a really good blog on of the Neurodivergent Athlete, which I'm we can link to the podcast, which has been really useful. I've had lots of athletes reach out to me saying, I didn't really know understand it until I read this article. So thank you very much. So just Chat to your potential coach and make sure it's right for you. I'm potentially a great coach for you, but I might not be, and that's okay. but we've got lots of coaches that would be perfect for you.

Andrew Harley: Ha ha ha. What is just to maybe end our main set with this, what is one of those really good success stories that you've had a persistent coaching with an athlete that came that needed a lot of help getting sorted?

Raya Usher: well I don't wanna name any names because these are c some pretty really emotional stories. But what is really incredible is we've had some beautiful story. So we had an incredibly autistic athlete join our team because they didn't feel like they'd ever had a home at at any other triathlon club. And we have got quite a strict policy of everybody is welcome in our community and they found a really lovely home and they've always thrived. we've worked with all sorts of abilities and disabilities in the club. So There's always such a lovely place for anyone. And I think the success stories you can see just in our coaches. with the diagnosis that we have, we've got ADD, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, autism, Asperger's, all within our coaching community. we also have some neurotypicals, don't worry. So if you want just a normal coach, that's also fine. but

Andrew Harley: Will is normal. Will Usher, he's normal. Yeah.

Raya Usher: Yeah, i y I mean, he's married to me, so there has to be something a little bit off with him, surely.

Andrew Harley: Well and a and going to like our stories of like messing something up on race day, like I can't imagine Will Usher forgetting something on race day. Can't imagine it.

Raya Usher: No. Ever. No, no, no. He's like everything's military precision. But that's probably why we work so well together, because I make things fun and lighthearted and go off point all the time and like nothing is too serious. And he keeps me on the straight and narrow. So it works, you know?

Andrew Harley: Moving on to our cooldown for today, we're gonna ask Coach Reya a question from the audience. And today's question comes from Edmund from Idaho. I've met Edmund at several races over the years working for TriDot, longtime TriDot ambassador. He's asking this question: Should I complete assessment workouts in the week leading up to a C race that is a 70.3? So, interestingly, for all of our TriDotters, if you have a C race on the calendar, that C race tells TriDot. Do not mess up my training schedule for this race. It is not as important as an A or B race. And so yeah, you might literally have a training session the day before, the day of, the day after a C race, even if it's a 70 point three. So Edmund is asking if that's a if it falls on assessment week and I've got assessments throughout the week, should I do them if I have a seventy point three that weekend? Rhea, what do you think?

Raya Usher: That that is a great question, Edmund. I really, really love it because obviously one thing that you get to do on TriDot is choose the importance or grade of your race. So it could be an A race, could be a B race, or could be a C race. In this instance, we have to take into a couple factors. One, it's a C race. So in the TriDot sort of methodology and how the AI works. you train through a C race. So there's obviously another race on the schedule where you will taper and you will have a more cycle, a bigger cycle for. In a C race, you will train through. The other thing to factor in though is that it is a long race. So 70.3 is a long way to go. And so you need to consider those sorts of things. So in general, the answer would be yes. Keep your assessments as scheduled because That is what your training is due to be that week. And you're not tapering for that race. Also, I know no one likes to hear this, but test weeks are actually excellent race week sessions because of the duration in which they are. so it's at race pace or higher, but for the right amount of duration. So don't be afraid to put them in there. Remember you're training through and you're not tapering. So it shouldn't really disrupt your normal rhythm. The one thing that TriDot doesn't do is move your sessions on that week, though. So if you have a race on a Saturday or Sunday, do move those assessments to earlier in the week so that you have a couple days clear to make sure that your legs are nice and ready for race day. listen to your body though. If you're if you're B or A race is quite close to that C race and you're feeling absolutely knackered, that 70.3 is going to make you quite fatigued. So that's when listening to your body and deciding if maybe I should drop one or two sessions in that week is justified. Listen to your body because it's normally right.